Dancing Through the Sidebar

John DehlinBible, book of mormon, BYU, children, Culture, families, gay, general, God, homosexuality, Humor, international, LDS, marriage, media, Mormon, news, politics, religion, sexuality 28 Comments

Comment on any of the following articles – or anything else from the sidebar – or any other article of interest to this forum that we missed.

There is no such thing as being normal

If Kaimi were in dire straits, he would prefer to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s

Apparently, marriage is hard work

Gayby Boomers? Silly name, interesting phenomenon

An explanation for Utah bankruptcies

I don’t think PETA would approve of this

Aren’t you glad we have calculaors?

Even Orson Scott Card realizes that Mormonism is a culture

Another reason to have more kids – Placenta Helper

The Bible & Book of Mormon don’t teach of THIS Holy Ghost

New Dehli: New gay rights in a deeply conservative country

Comments 28

  1. “If Kaimi were in dire straits, he’s prefer to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.”

    Yes, but if I were in Dire Straits, I would have money for nothing. 🙂

  2. Favorite line out of all, coming from the “Placenta Helper” article:

    If I ever kill a man in my own home, I am totally calling the placenta lady.

  3. Society must not condone the deviancy of homosexuality. Homosexuality and it’s acceptance does not build societies but ripens them for destruction.

  4. #7:
    Homosexuality and it’s acceptance does not build societies but ripens them for destruction.

    Jon, please elaborate for us. Specifically, please explain to us the evidence upon which you have concluded that “homosexuality and it’s [sic] acceptance” “ripens” a society “for destruction.”

  5. RE: Orson Scott Card. Of course we’re a tribe. We’re the tribe of Ephraim. But the article offers several great examples of other “tribal” behavior, and while I don’t normally agree with the man, I thought this particular column was compelling.

    Could mormons be considered an ethnicity like Jews? Or at least the Utah Mormons? (Maybe I should just go back and read the comments on ‘what is a cultural mormon?…)

  6. The scriptures are not wrong. The prophets are not wrong. To ignore prophetic counsel on this subject is to change the very ground you stand on.

  7. #12 – The scriptures are fiction, but the ideas espoused in them are wrong. And those men whom you regard as prophets (those who actually existed) are also wrong.

  8. Jon:

    What makes them gullible? Their spiritual confirmations aren’t valid, but yours are? I think it is hilarious how members of the LDS church so easily mock the beliefs of JW’s and many other religions as silly and nonsensical. It seems a bit hypocritical.

  9. #14 – Jon, what makes this comment so deliciously ironic is that during his life, joseph smith intimated that he himself may have been the holy ghost incarnate. If it’s the sex abuse and scandal that you’re shocked about, I would direct you to Adam F’s post from yesterday.

  10. #16
    Alot in life can be discerned by common sense. The risen Lord promised that he would send the comforter to testify of truth. Truth is truth and truth is eternal.

  11. that’s exactly why the truth that is testified to people can differ drastically, right? and that common sense is often uncommon and nonsensical, right?

  12. Some unconventional thinking

    1. The gay lifestyle is a deadly addiction, both spiritually and physically and should be avoided at all costs.
    2. One should no more act on gay urges than one would act on urges to kill or to molest children. Do we not ask people to get help when they say they have urges to kill or molest kids?
    3. We have been promised that same sex attraction was not present in the pre-existence and will not be present after this life. See God Loveth His Children pamphlet.


  13. I’m now convinced that Jon Miranda is not a real person, or if he is, his posts are not serious. He’s just here to lighten the mood with his purposefully ridiculous quips. Jon, thanks for taking the time, buddy.

  14. BR Jones:
    Calling someone/something ridiculous because it does not go with how you see things is a very inmature thing to do.
    Nothing that I have said is inconsistent with gospel teachings.

  15. Jon, your comparison to homosexual desires to child murder are so offensive that making fun of them is about the only way I could address them without being banned from this blog. Ironically, most people in your church (including most of its leaders) try to compare gay desires to unmarried heterosexual desires in defending the church’s position on homosexuality. I’ll give you this – at least you’re honest. Your comments are consistently hateful, bigoted, ignorant and flatly disgusting. That said, they are also comical. If you would prefer I stop observing the humor in my editorials, I’ll just stick to being brutally honest. I would challenge anyone to go through all the comments I have ever posted on this blog and come up with any that are intentionally disrespectful. That said, your comments, including #19 in this thread, are absolutely unworthy of my respect.

  16. They are many “GAYS’ that recognize that it is not a good thing to act on these desires, that doing so leads down a path that will benefot no one including themselves. There is an opposing view out there that you cannot silence just because you don’t find that it suits you.

  17. I notice that gay rights are a very uppity issue with people and that usually controversial topics like this will get alot of comments on blogs. This means that people feel very deeply and strongly about this. They are all opinions of the bloggers. Even though you may not like what someone says, diffeent opinions keep things interesting and lively.

    Would you prefer that people only blog on here that agree with you?

  18. BRJONES:
    May I also ask this
    What do you think of organizations like Evergreen International that say homosexual desires can be diminished?
    Not being facetious, I would like to know. Thanks.

  19. brjones
    And I do want to concede to you that I can find better ways to present my opinions and thoughts while at the same time holding on the the idea that censorship is in no one’s best interest.

  20. #23, 24 & 26 – Jon, I have no desire to silence the viewpoints of those who don’t feel the same as me. Do I wish more people thought like I do? If it’s an issue that I think is important and there is one correct position, then of course I do. I don’t think that makes me different from anyone else. Clearly you feel as strongly about your position on this issue as I do, and I completely respect that. Just because I argue strenuously about an issue doesn’t mean I want to silence anyone’s views. However, that is a completely different issue that my desire to eliminate hateful and damaging comments like some of the ones you have made in the context of the issue of homosexuality. In my opinion, it is unwarranted, unsupportable and inappropriate in a civilized conversation about any issue. You compared gay sex to child murder. I can scarcely think of a comment more repugnant. And frankly, the fact that you may know gay people who feel the same way is completely irrelevant. If there are gay people who feel that gay sex is akin to child murder, they are absolutely wrong and offensive as well, and I would have no problem telling them so. I appreciate that you and others strongly feel that homosexuality is a grave sin, and that your feelings are rooted in scripture and religious teachings. Although I disagree, I am fine with this position. But I don’t think there’s any need for the vitriol or hatefulness that has made its way into some of your comments. To put it much more mildly than I did before, that’s all I’m saying.

  21. #25 – Jon, I can’t really speak to this issue with any degree of confidence because a)I’m not gay and b) I don’t have a lot of experience with such groups. I know that obviously there are people who believe they are effective, and many others who disagree. My overall perception is that the majority of homosexuals reject the idea that homosexuality can be “de-programmed.” Of course it may just be that most gays have never tried or that the dominant voice of the gay movement is controlled by those who are opposed to such groups. Whatever the reason, I think it is a small minority that holds the position that homosexuality can be unlearned. My personal instinct would be that homosexuality is not generally a chosen behavior (although that’s not to say it is not EVER chosen) and that it can’t really be de-programmed. That said, I don’t think it’s too far fetched to believe that one can subjugate and “overcome” homosexual desires through exercises, meditation, etc. However, I think it would be possible to do that with pretty much any human desire if you really wanted to, so I’m not sure what it proves. I’m attracted to women, but if I had a strong enough desire to neutralize that desire, I could put myself in a position to push that desire down and make it dormant. I don’t think that would change the fact that I am attracted to women, but would only allow me to operate without that desire affecting me on a regular basis. Similarly, I don’t think most homosexuals that are involved in groups like EI are really changing their sexual orientation. But hey, whatever works for people in their own lives is fine with me. I do think it’s sad that the dominant religious culture in this country shames and cows people into thinking they need to do that to be accepted, even by themselves. In fact I think that’s tragic, and that much I do know from personal experience. But as to my familiarity with groups such as EI, it is very shallow.

    If you have thoughts on the issue you’d like to share, I’d be interested to hear them.

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