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  1. I would like the panel to address the questions raised by research such as this. These articles seem to indicate that the LGBT community wants to maintain the gains from the sexual revolution (promiscuity, open marriages) but add the trappings of traditional marriage (ceremony, legal status, societal legitimacy.) This has clear implications for the moral boundaries that the Church establishes.

    Thanks you in advance.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=0

    1. The LGBT community is a diverse group of people, and so there is no central body who decides what we all want. It is true that many straight people and many gay people are choosing different alternatives to monogamy. However, my impression of gay couples who want to be active in the LDS church is that they are very committed to monogamy, and they would like to be supported in this.

      When they write these articles, they don’t point out another trend: studies show that as homosexuality has been more accepted by society, and as marriage has been presented increasingly as an option for gay people over the last decade, gay men are having less sexual partners (thus becoming more monogamous).

      The church certainly gives a mixed message when it is the gay people who seek a monogamous relationships who are declared apostates. it seems like promiscuity would be considered a bigger problem, but apparently not in the eyes of the church.

  2. The LGBT community is a diverse group of people, and so there is no central body who decides what we all want. It is true that many straight people and many gay people are choosing different alternatives to monogamy. However, my impression of gay couples who want to be active in the LDS church is that they are very committed to monogamy, and they would like to be supported in this.

    When they write these articles, they don’t point out another trend: studies show that as homosexuality has been more accepted by society, and as marriage has been presented increasingly as an option for gay people over the last decade, gay men are having less sexual partners (thus becoming more monogamous).

    The church certainly gives a mixed message when it is the gay people who seek a monogamous relationships who are declared apostates. it seems like promiscuity would be considered a bigger problem, but apparently not in the eyes of the church.

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      Author

      I’ve emailed you before about why I’ve deleted the ones I have. Why don’t you respond back privately and we can actually have a discussion. This drive-by commenting about my moderation comes to an end right now.

  3. I believe it was Part 2 in which the “big-brother effect” and the “oldest brother effect” were discussed. Daniel briefly discussed how these two studies aren’t contradicting each other, but I would like some more clarification please. This is how it sounds:

    “The oldest brother is more likely to be gay. The youngest brother is likely to be gay.” So who isn’t likely to be gay? It seems almost post-hoc.

    As everybody from the panel know, this is an honest question and not a criticism.

    – Mike

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      Author

      I don’t think any of the studies talk about the oldest brother as most likely to be gay. In fact, quite the opposite. The more older brothers one has the more likely the younger son is to be gay.

      But, please, experts weigh in!

    2. I might have been mixing up between my brain and my tongue. According to the studies, having older brothers increases a boys chances of turning out gay. The more older brothers he has, the higher the odds he will be gay.

      We mentioned that there are certainly oldest sons who are gay too, so that mechanism wouldn’t explain their situation, and there are likely different pathways that lead to homosexuality, so the big brother effect isn’t always a factor. In fact, Dr. Bradshaw pointed out that left-handedness also increases the odds of a gay outcome, and this is independent of the big brother effect. This implies a different pathway.

      I hope this is making sense 🙂

  4. Fascinating discussion; I had no idea that there was so much scientific evidence backing up a genetic/neurological basis for “gender nonaffinity” and related issues. For the benefit of those of us who aren’t as scientifically minded and whose brains (like Natasha’s) hurt from such intricate discussions, are there any layman-friendly resources that you could recommend?

    1. The team working with Kendall Wilcox at FarBetween the movies is working on a version that should be accessible to most people. Later this coming year I also hope to do a youtube project explaining these things in very ‘easy to understand’ terms. When I do, I am going to post it around, so I hope it comes to your attention. It will certainly get posted at NoMoreStrangers.org as well as other places.

  5. Daniel. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my earlier comment. I wanted to listen to the rest of the podcast before commenting further. I know only of a couple of LDS/former LDS gay couples who are married but they also live in open relationships. Fifty percent in an open relationship is a significant number. My concern is that marriage is a covenantal relationship and the open-marriage norm is counter to that. I had hoped to hear more about research on the behavioral elements of this issue although that might have been an uncomfortable discussion and not part of the narrative I hear from LGBT allies. Thank you again.

    1. If you are concerned about same-sex couples being monogamous, then the best strategy would be to offer them a place in Mormonism or another community where monogamy is promoted.

      I am not sure if it is relevant how many married couples (straight or gay) are polyamorous. However, I am pretty sure that gay and straight people who are embraced by a church community (that supports them in monogamy) are more likely to practice monogamy. Straight and gay couples who are forced out of their religious communities, might be more likely to write their own rules.

      Basically, I am trying to figure out what point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that I shouldn’t be allowed to marry because some gay couples have open marriages? Or that if I do marry that I should be declared apostate, because some gay couples have open marriages?

      I hope we someday have research to show what happens to LGBT couples who believe in monogamy and are supported by their religious community in trying to pursue monogamous, life-long relationships. However, that research is obviously not possible in a Mormon context at the moment. I look forward to when that is a narrative common enough to actually give us statistics.

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