Have You Ever Wondered…..

A set of random questions to aimlessly ponder on a Friday.

    1. Why the Church building is called a Meetinghouse and the Stake Center used to be called a Stake House?
    2. Why our weekly Church Service is called a Sacrament Meeting with a Sacrament Service within it?
    3. Why we need to take the Sacrament on a weekly basis except for Stake and General Conference weekends?
    4. That we understand “Deacon, Teacher and Priest” pretty well, but what’s up with “Beehive, MIAmaid and Laurel?
    5. Why we have Sunday School lessons that are 20 years old with very minor updates along the way?
    6. Why we always thank Heavenly Father for Moisture, not rain, snow or flooding?
    7. Why some people ask to “bless the hands” that prepared the food, but not the rest of the person?
    8. If a non-white shirt and facial hair will keep men out of the Celestial Kingdom?
    9. If “we believe the Bible to be the Word of God so far as it is translated correctly,” why there has been no work done by the Church on a “correct” translation?
    10. Why we call parties and receptions held on Sunday a “fireside”?

What do you wonder?  Be nice….. and cute at least.

Comments

comments

60 comments for “Have You Ever Wondered…..

  1. Aaron R.
    July 2, 2010 at 7:57 am

    I wonder…

    Why we have so many callings and very few that impact outside the immediate community?
    What happened to the Primary colours?
    Why we can have firesides but not BBQ’s on sunday? (This might just be my ward).

    That last one is dedicated to James.

  2. July 2, 2010 at 8:52 am

    I wonder why you can’t be a temple or veil worker if you have a beard or moustache or if you’re male and divorced. I also wonder when they announced the restriction on facial hair they told temple workers to not talk about it and deny it.

    I wonder why the chapel is considered to be a special place but kids and teenagers still sprawl on benches and before and after meetings the noise levels are such that you can’t hear prelude and postlude music.

    I wonder why you can feel a palpable sense of relief in the congregation when the sacrament is over and the rest of the meeting starts.

    I wonder why people who’ve never lived in the west and had to depend on the weather for survival get such a kick out the quaint term “moisture”.

  3. July 2, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Why did we reinserted a hymn into the hymnbook that has the German national anthem as its tune?

  4. Jeff Spector
    July 2, 2010 at 10:06 am

    GBSmith,

    “I also wonder when they announced the restriction on facial hair they told temple workers to not talk about it and deny it.”

    It was announced?

    To all, Good so far……

  5. mh
    July 2, 2010 at 10:15 am

    why do we refer to sacrament and general conference addresses as ‘talks’ rather than ‘sermons’?

    if we ‘preach, expound, exhort’ etc, why is preaching generally used as a negative connotation? for example, if I gave a sacrament talk and said ‘in my sermon, I preached on topic x’, I think most people would view that as an arrogant statement. why is that?

  6. Hawkgrrrl
    July 2, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I have often wondered what a MiaMaid is. I always pictured the girl on the SunMaid raisin box.

  7. Mex Davis
    July 2, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Why do we call it a Rest Hyumn, it’s only been 40 minutes?
    Why do some say during blessings ‘and all other blessing you are in need of’, that could be a boat of blessings?
    Do we really need gyms in our buildings?
    Why do we sing most hymns like we are at a funeral, where’s the joy?
    Why can’t a Sister be SS President, if like RS, it’s an auxiliary?
    Why can’t older single brethern serve missions like older single sisters?
    How does an illegal alien answer the recommend question about being totally honest?
    When are we going to be able to pay Tithing/FO with debt cards?
    Does anyone remember PPIs?
    Why do we thank the ‘Priesthood’ and not the brethren who hold/use the Priesthood?
    Why do we bless cake/donuts/cookies to nurish and strenghten us?
    Why can’t these blogs ahve spell check?

  8. Aaron R.
    July 2, 2010 at 10:57 am

    I just think the word ‘Maid’ in the title of any YW class is not the right way to go.

  9. Clark
    July 2, 2010 at 11:36 am

    While we’re on the topic of prayers

    Where did the phrase “no harm or accident fall upon us” come from?
    Is “nourish and strengthen our bodies” better than the simple “make us healthy and strong”?
    What ever happened to the Kimball-era phrase “soften the hearts of the kings and rulers to let the missionaries in”

    And on sermons…
    Why do so many speakers simply read their talks in a monotone voice, never lifing their eyes from the pulpit?
    Why can’t high councilmen be required to join the Toastmaster’s Club and learn to give an engaging speech? (After all, they do it every month?

    And on facial hair…
    Why does BYU Testing Center have entrance standards more exacting than the temple itself?

  10. Rich
    July 2, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Aaron R – 1

    “What happened to the Primary colors?”

    Somebody talk about this one. I think I know but I’m not sure.

    “Why we can have firesides but not BBQ’s on sunday?”

    Neither one are official Church meetings and it is possible neither one should be on Sunday. At least I can’t find the word ‘fireside’ in the handbook (BBQ isn’t there either).

    GBSmith – 2

    “I also wonder when they announced the restriction on facial hair they told temple workers to not talk about it and deny it.”

    OK. So if I’m a temple worker (which I’m not) I don’t talk about facial hair (I guess) but what I don’t get is what I say or don’t say about the ‘deny it’ thing. Somebody respond to this. I don’t understand what they mean. And when and where was this announced? You don’t even need to be exact. I would say I’m very active in Church but I totally missed this one.

    Paul -3

    “Why did we reinserted a hymn into the hymnbook that has the German national anthem as its tune?”

    Which one’s that? Maybe I’m not all that active in the Church. Anybody got something else I don’t know?

    Hey Jeff, my response on your ten questions.

    1-3 – interesting.
    4 – sad —- very sad.
    5 – I never blame the Church or the teacher on a boring lesson. I always blame myself.
    6 – I’ve never thanked Him for any them. Maybe I should re-evaluate my prayers.
    7-8 – cute.
    9 – I think the answer is kind of political, maybe, but when I’m done reading the
    Bible (King James) I’m going to start reading the Inspired Version – no comparing – just read it – and then reread it and reread it. I don’t know. I’ll see what
    happens.
    10 – see Aaron – 1.

  11. July 2, 2010 at 11:51 am

    #10 Rich: The German National Anthem has the same tune as #46 — Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken. It’s a Haydn tune.

    #2 — On facial hair for male temple workers: I have a full beard today, but when I worked in the Taipei temple, I shaved it because they asked me to. It was a privilege to work in the temple, and I’d be happy to shave it again if asked. No one said I shouldn’t discuss the matter with anyone. I assume the reason for doing so is that temple patrons should focus on the temple when they’re there — not whether or not the officiator has a beard.

    I’m with you on reverence in the chapel. I miss that a lot.

  12. Justin
    July 2, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    So Paul, what if a Temple worker has a funny looking nose, or has a scar [burn, missing finger, etc.] — should he or she not be allowed to work in the Temple so as to not distract you with their weirdness?

  13. July 2, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Justin, huh?

  14. Duerma
    July 2, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    I wonder why we don’t have a children’s time and have the junior primary leave right after the Sacrament? Seriously, that was the biggest culture shock when I converted – none of the other churches I attended before made anyone under the age of 7 suffer through the sermons. For that matter, I wonder what the people who complain about reverence do/did to keep their multiple under-6 kids quiet and still for an hour. :p

  15. July 2, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “OK. So if I’m a temple worker (which I’m not) I don’t talk about facial hair (I guess) but what I don’t get is what I say or don’t say about the ‘deny it’ thing. Somebody respond to this. I don’t understand what they mean. And when and where was this announced? You don’t even need to be exact. I would say I’m very active in Church but I totally missed this one.”

    It was about 10 years ago and there was a little news piece in the SL Tribune about it with an interesting response by Armand Mauss. I realized after reading it that a ward member who was a temple worker had shaved his beard so I asked him about it the next Sunday. At first he said there wasn’t anything to it but then later in the day told me it was true and that they’d been told not to talk about it. The only reason I’ve ever heard given is that since none of the brethren have facial hair we need to look like them.

  16. July 2, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Re Hawk

    I have often wondered what a MiaMaid is. I always pictured the girl on the SunMaid raisin box.

    Best line of the day! Maybe the month!!

    Here the ultimate for me:
    Why on earth is question number 7 in the TR interview even there (or at least not seriously augmented)? Here it is in case you forgot: “Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”
    I mean, holy crap! Is there any Mormon on earth that could honestly answer this question, in the expected manner, as it is phrased? Seriously, the amount of word stretching and semantics games one needs to play to “read into” this question is just ridiculous! Even the church itself violates this rule!

  17. JRid
    July 2, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Always interesting when people ask why certain traditions and policies exist in the Church; even more interesting when we find out why! Many are rooted in Church history, while others are carry-overs from 19th century American history the early Saints brought with them and retained, mostly because of the isolation in the west, while the rest of the country moved on. So many are just traditions no one has bothered to question, others simply policies of a certain era (like the facial hair thing), while others still have actual doctrinal basis.

    MIA maid comes from “Mutual Improvement Association”, the original names of the youth programs (Young Men’s MIA, Young Ladies MIA). Many in the church still refer to YM/YW collectively as “mutual” because of this. “Maid” is simply used a word for young girl, much like we use the term “maiden name” for someone’s pre-married name. “Maid” doesn’t have to mean a servant. I think all the YW class names were simply developed so that the girls had a similar structure to what the boys have in YM. As far as I know they are relatively recent developments.

    I think we use “talks” instead of “sermons” because at least within the church (and probably outside the church as well) a sermon is generally associated with a full-time pastor or minister. It’s certainly not incorrect to use “sermon” though since talks are definitely sermons. A “talk” seems a little less formal than “sermon” too. In all honesty it’s simply a tradition; either way is correct.

    “Moisture” is a term generally used out West to describe rain, at least in my experience. Here in the East, we do thank the Lord for rain or the weather, but rarely do I hear someone thank him for “the moisture that has fallen” unless they are from the west. And no, out East we don’t really have to worry about rain like those in the Western US do. Irrigation? Non-existent out here.

  18. Jeff Spector
    July 2, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    JMB275,

    ““Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?””

    I said to the Counselor in the Stake Presidency last Sunday, “Yeah, my Sunday School Class! Just kidding…..”

  19. Duerma
    July 2, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    “Moisture” is a term generally used out West to describe rain, at least in my experience. Here in the East, we do thank the Lord for rain or the weather, but rarely do I hear someone thank him for “the moisture that has fallen” unless they are from the west.

    We also say “moisture” instead of rain as a way of reminding ourselves that the foot of snow that fell in April when we are sick to death of winter really is good for our plants and soil. 😉

  20. Jeff Spector
    July 2, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    JRid

    Wow, you actually tired to explain some of those things? I thought the questions were all rhetorical…. 🙂

  21. Clark
    July 2, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    We use the word “talk” because no one knows what a “homily” is.

  22. July 2, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    FWIW, MIA sounds better than the original name, Young Women’s Retrenchment Society.

    Also, I wonder why the weekly box of chocolates to the 12 starts at the top of the table. I thought the last were to be first and the first to be last. According to Elder Perry those on the low end hadn’t seen a dark chocolate in years.

  23. Rich
    July 2, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Hawkgrrrl – 6

    “I have often wondered what a MiaMaid is. I always pictured the girl on the SunMaid raisin box.”

    Isn’t a MiaMaid a single girl (what is it? 14-15) who attends the Mutual Improvement Association?

    Mex Davis -7

    “Why can’t older single brethern serve missions like older single sisters?”

    It is not good for man to be alone. And that’s all there is to it. Although my wife says they can’t take care of themselves.

    “How does an illegal alien answer the recommend question about being totally honest?”

    No.
    Although to be fair, the phrase ‘totally honest’ is redundant and I don’t think the word ‘totally’ is in the recommend question. A lot of us may have problems with that question.

    “Does anyone remember PPIs?”

    A long time ago in a land far away.

    “Why do we bless cake/donuts/cookies to nurish and strenghten us?”

    I don’t discuss deep doctrines.

    “Why can’t these blogs ahve spell check?”

    Bravo!! Here, here. Three cheers for Mex! Hip, hip hurray!! Hip, hip hurray!! Hip, hip hurray!!

    Clark – 9

    ““no harm or accident fall upon us””

    I think the words ‘befall us’ would do better.

  24. JRid
    July 2, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    @Mex- hope you don’t mind my attempts to answer your questions!
    Why do we call it a Rest Hyumn, it’s only been 40 minutes?
    -I’ve heard it being called the “intermediate hymn” more and more. At least in my ward “rest hymn” was been discouraged.

    Why do some say during blessings ‘and all other blessing you are in need of’, that could be a boat of blessings?
    -A coverall; I think it’s mostly just habit and tradition, kind of like in baby blessings saying they will be known “on the records of the Church…”

    Do we really need gyms in our buildings?
    -Ask someone who’s been in a ward or branch that didn’t have one. I’m glad we have them, not only for sports but for all sorts of other uses they have. That’s why they’re officially “cultural halls” (a term from the Nauvoo era). In reality, they’re large multipurpose rooms so we can do more activities and also do things that may not be appropriate (for reverence issues or just logistical ones) in the chapel.

    Why do we sing most hymns like we are at a funeral, where’s the joy?
    -Sigh, this is so true. How slow or fast the accompanist plays can be a big part. I think a lot of people think slow and boring = spiritual. (not me!!)

    Why can’t a Sister be SS President, if like RS, it’s an auxiliary?
    -I think this is rooted in tradition as well. If there is an actual doctrinal explanation, I have never seen it. Same reason a guy can’t be Primary president; policy, not doctrine.

    Why can’t older single brethern serve missions like older single sisters?
    -Tradition mostly since the culture of the Church expects that men will have already served a mission by then while many older sisters likely did not serve missions before then.

    How does an illegal alien answer the recommend question about being totally honest?
    -I honestly don’t think they can. This came up a lot in my mission because we bordered Mexico. We were allowed to baptize them, but I’m not sure where it went afterwards (I never had to deal with it). I would imagine they would have to straighten that out before getting a temple recommend if they are totally honest in the interview.

    When are we going to be able to pay Tithing/FO with debt cards?
    -I wonder if we ever will! Even better…pay online!

    Does anyone remember PPIs?
    -Our ward and stake still do them sporadically, but since I’m in Primary I don’t get them at all! They were done regularly in my college wards at BYU-Idaho.

    Why do we thank the ‘Priesthood’ and not the brethren who hold/use the Priesthood?
    -Habit, much like thanking the Kiwanas or other group for their service in a town. “Priesthood” is being used as the name of the group rather than what authority they’re holding. I’ve heard “Aaronic Priesthood brethren” on many occasions though.

    Why do we bless cake/donuts/cookies to nurish and strenghten us?
    -LOL so true. Habit, pure and simple.

    Why can’t these blogs ahve spell check?
    -Use Firefox or Chrome!

  25. N.
    July 2, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    A set of random questions to aimlessly ponder on a Friday.

    OK, I’m gonna be “that guy” and actually answer these. ::sigh:: I’m pathetic. Here we go:

    Why the Church building is called a Meetinghouse and the Stake Center used to be called a Stake House?

    Too much ambiguity previously. “Church building” to SLC residents means the big office building on Temple Square. “Stake House” sounds too much like “steakhouse.” Homophones and mixed up referents always find a workaround.

    Why our weekly Church Service is called a Sacrament Meeting with a Sacrament Service within it?

    One receives “service” of the Sacrament in a meeting that is for that purpose. The “Sacrament Service” is the blessing and passing within larger context of a meeting which includes sermons hymns and prayers additionally.

    Why we need to take the Sacrament on a weekly basis except for Stake and General Conference weekends?

    The commandment is “meet together oft[en].” 48 out of 52 weeks is apparently “often” enough for its purpose. Another reason is practical of course, since it would take an hour or more just to serve a stake’s worth of people the sacrament. On top of all that, *you* don’t need to take it weekly, but it is *offered* weekly to give people a chance to take it “oft.”

    That we understand “Deacon, Teacher and Priest” pretty well, but what’s up with “Beehive, MIAmaid and Laurel?

    Some of this one has been ably covered by others (MIAMaid in particular). Beehive is a standard Utah-centric symbol. Originally it was the “Beehive Girls” (location + membership) made parallel to “Boy Scouts of America” (roughly membership + location). I’ve read that in 1950 the program was split out to approximately the groups have today but called girls 16-18 “Gleaners.” The Gleaners changed its name to “Laurels” 10 years later. Laurels being a traditional symbol of honor, accomplishment, and a crown: more fitting for the end of a program than “person who subsists on the cast off harvest of others.”

    Why we have Sunday School lessons that are 20 years old with very minor updates along the way?

    The same reason we have General Authorities the same way. No one changes anything until the previous one is dead.

    Why we always thank Heavenly Father for Moisture, not rain, snow or flooding?

    Desert farmers and ranchers talk funny when they try to “class up” their language for church.

    Why some people ask to “bless the hands” that prepared the food, but not the rest of the person?

    Synecdoche – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche

    If a non-white shirt and facial hair will keep men out of the Celestial Kingdom?

    Unlikely, all our representations of God the Father and Resurrected Christ have beards. Most of the modern prophets also wore (and wear) them proudly. Not a hair will be lost, mind you.
    The current obsession with these things is our barely-constrained Pharisaism. It’ll go away by the Millennium.

    If “we believe the Bible to be the Word of God so far as it is translated correctly,” why there has been no work done by the Church on a “correct” translation?

    They have one already, the “Inspired version.” And it’s strewn throughout the LDS printing of the KJV.

    Why we call parties and receptions held on Sunday a “fireside”?

    We only call them that when they are at the Stake House. If they are at the steakhouse, they’re still called a “party.”

  26. JRid
    July 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Very well put N. 🙂

  27. N.
    July 2, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I’m breaking with my self-imposed restriction to only comment on the post and not the accompanying comments. Again.
    But I’m on a roll and feel like I know answers to these, and I’m enough of a smartalec to need to share them.

    Why do some say during blessings ‘and all other blessing you are in need of’, that could be a boat of blessings?

    We like a catch-all for things we haven’t thought of and have no way of knowing about.

    Do we really need gyms in our buildings?

    How else do we practice running and not being weary, walking and not fainting?

    Why do we sing most hymns like we are at a funeral, where’s the joy?

    The accompanist slows down to meet the congregation which doesn’t know the song very well, so the congregation slows down. Makes vicious slowing circle, ignoring the chorister (usually ignoring the chorister a good thing anyway).

    When are we going to be able to pay Tithing/FO with debt cards?

    You can already pay with BillPay/EFT. It’s great, but they shut down new account additions due to it being too burdensome on Church HQ.
    https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Electronic_donations

    Why do we thank the ‘Priesthood’ and not the brethren who hold/use the Priesthood?

    Metonymy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy

  28. Jeff Spector
    July 2, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Awesome job so far, guys and gals, or is that M-Men and Gleeners?

  29. Hawkgrrrl
    July 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    “Laurels being a traditional symbol of honor, accomplishment, and a crown: more fitting for the end of a program than “person who subsists on the cast off harvest of others” Yes, Laurels actually made sense to me as a 17-year old girl, which is why when I got my YW medallion I did a few victory laps around the chapel humming the Rocky theme song.

  30. July 2, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    That’s gleaners as in gleaning the fields. No clue about M-Men. And what ever happened to Special Interest?

  31. Thomas
    July 2, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    “Why do we sing most hymns like we are at a funeral, where’s the joy?”

    My mother the chorister conducts all hymns prestissimo, including the Sacrament hymns. Lovely.

  32. Thomas
    July 2, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    #3 — Well, whaddaya know. So it is.

    That hymn must never have been sung in my ward, otherwise I would have perked right up and begun singing (smartaleck that I am) auf echten Deutsch.

  33. Justin
    July 2, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    RE 13

    Paul:
    I shaved it because they asked me to. It was a privilege to work in the temple, and I’d be happy to shave it again if asked. No one said I shouldn’t discuss the matter with anyone. I assume the reason for doing so is that temple patrons should focus on the temple when they’re there — not whether or not the officiator has a beard.

    I wonder about the logic that concludes that it is acceptable to ask Temple workers to shave on the basis that patrons might sit and wonder “whether or not the officiator has a beard.”

    My examples were designed to raise other instances where a person might sit and wonder about the appearance of a Temple worker.

    It’s good that you were honored to shave it off for the Lord, but should someone not be allowed to volunteer as a Temple worker because they consider it an important matter to keep that portion of the image of God in which men have been created with?

  34. Richard
    July 2, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Why would a priesthood holder who has had a neatly trimmed mustache for 46 years (whose children have never seen him without one), served as a High Councilor, served in 2 Bishoprics for over 6 years, served as a Bishop for 7 years, all while wearing a mustache, not be allowed to serve as a Temple Worker??????

  35. Liesel
    July 3, 2010 at 12:09 am

    I think the beard in question is more to do with uniformity and “oneness” if you will, just like missionaries are supposed to shave and wear white shirts and dark suits. a baseball team that doesn’t have uniforms feel like a bunch of kids just playing around, but get then a uniform and suddenly they feel more legitimate, they will be better respected, and they will feel more a part of something; that’s the idea anyway.

  36. July 3, 2010 at 6:04 am

    #35 Liesel, I think you’re on the right track. There have been numerous talks that when we attend the temple, we all “look alike”.

    #33 Justin, I can imagine that many older temple patrons (who are most often in the temple) still have strong feelings about what a beard or mustache means. They may be wrong, or course. My beard is in no way a sign of social rebellion. I don’t think others view physical deformities as social commentary, primarily because they are not there by choice.

    I’ve had my beard off and on for 25 years or so, including wearing it during two turns as bishop. Frankly, those who invite people to serve in temples can place any conditions on those workers they like. No one is forced to shave. But, yes, one must make a choice to comply if he wants to serve. A young friend of mine, when he learned I’d shaved my beard to serve, said basically what you did, that they should not have asked me to do it. I told him that it was an honor to do so, and frankly, I would have shaved my head for the opportunity if that’s what they asked me to do.

    The way I was asked was matter of fact and gentle, not accusing in any way. And because of the covenants I’ve made, I complied.

  37. Michael
    July 3, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Paul, does that mean we should ask those brothers and sisters that serve in the Temple to lose weight if they are dramatically overweight? I find that a large distraction as I try to concentrate on the ceremony. Why do we only highlight one item to the exclusion of other distracting attributes?

  38. Jeff Spector
    July 3, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    I am a little hard pressed to accept the “look alike” argument with regard to facial hair. Did Joseph Smith use that argument on any of his Brethren at the time? I doubt it. Are Heavenly Father and Jesus a distraction? hardly.

    I can see there might have been a time that facial hair and male long hair represented a rebellion of sorts to the world, but church history is full of facial hair and male long hair for that matter.

    I qualify to enter the Temple, perform the “work” on behalf of deceased persons, I can take the sacrament, perform Priesthood ordinances, the church accepts my tithes and offering, I have a calling and teach members on an almost weekly basis, but I do not qualify to work in the Temple because I have a beard.

    sorry, it makes no sense to me.

  39. July 3, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Jeff, I can’t answer your question. And Michael, yours makes no sense to me.

    As I said before, those who determine what one must do to work in the temple can choose whatever they want, and then others will choose to act based on those requirements.

    Jeff, I would say that it’s probably not true that you are not qualified to work in the temple given all else you described. If you were invited to work there, you would have to make a choice about keeping your beard or not. It’s true that it has not always been that facial hair was not allowed on temple workers.

  40. Mai Li
    July 3, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    When we visited Nauvoo several years ago we encountered a missionary who told us that he had been required to shave a mustache that he had had his entire adult life (his wife cried and his children were amazed to see him thus) to serve a missionin Nauvoo. Once in Nauvoo he was required to wear period costume, minus the facial hair that nearly every man of that period would have worn. Strange

  41. species373
    July 4, 2010 at 12:55 am

    #7 Why can’t a Sister be SS President, if like RS, it’s an auxiliary?

    – The “doctrine” that I was taught was that women can not preside over men. I’m sure the backing was various misogynistic verses from the New Testament.

  42. Jeff Spector
    July 4, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Paul,

    “It’s true that it has not always been that facial hair was not allowed on temple workers.’

    I know that as well, because I was a Veil Worker in Oakland for 5 years with a beard. It was only when I moved to Colorado that The Denver Temple President said I couldn’t because ” The prophet said so.”

    And you are right, when confronted with a decision, I will make one. My wife and I look forward to serving a Mission someday, so that day will arrive at some point.

  43. GBSmith
    July 4, 2010 at 8:25 am

    The fall back reason is always “the prophet said so” but I doubt the prophet had anything to do with it. I expect it was dreamed up as a good idea by someone and then ok’d without any real thought. It’s never been publicly discussed because there’s no logical or rational reason for it other than as a faith test. For the leadership to put forth their reasoning would mean that it wasn’t from God’s mouth to the prophet’s ear and was something open to discussion. It’s just easier to run a railroad when you can tell people what to do and leave the choice to them. I’ve never an issue with the obedience thing because I’ve always associated it with keeping the commandments but things like this are just obey because I said so. I expect at some future time it will just quietly be changed and fade away like some of the other policies that turned out to just be that.

  44. Liesel
    July 4, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    When we take into account the era that we live, then we will notice that most people would associate being clean shaven is just that “cleaner” I mean, even I feel that way even though I know it takes upkeep and Men aren’t just letting their facial air get dirty and nasty. my brother and brother in law both have goatees and I think it makes them look more masculine and distinguished when that keep it very trim and well kept; however at the same time I think it would just be easier to just shave it all off and always look well kept! ha anyway, I doubt I’m making any sense and sorry for that, it’s just how I have always looked at it. I would expect that one day (like earlier in church history) facial hair will be easily excepted. I realize that can sound worldly, but it’s important to appear just as clean and pure as our hearts 🙂 even if that means shaving the mustache lol

  45. Clark
    July 4, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    #41

    If women can’t preside over men, then how does a female primary president (or entire presidency, for that matter)preside over male teachers. Our ward has at least as many men helping out in primary as it does in SS.

  46. Jeff Spector
    July 4, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    GBSmith,

    “The fall back reason is always “the prophet said so” but I doubt the prophet had anything to do with it. ‘

    I would have to agree. Our kids never liked hearing that either…..

  47. dblock
    July 4, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Another thing which is cloaked in church history is the fact that women need to wear dresses in order to be considered respectable attire, I actually found a quote from President Mckay, stating emphatically,” It is not the intention of the presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -Day Saints to tell women that they should, or should not wear pants, nor how long there dresses should be.” This was put out by the church in 1971 or 72 during the height of woman’s liberation movement, yet church culture still insist that if we wear pants to church we(women) are not keeping promises made at baptism.

  48. Liesel
    July 4, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    that’s an interesting point dblock I, however have known women to wear nice feminine slacks to church and no one thought twice about it. very interesting though.

  49. GBSmith
    July 4, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    “but it’s important to appear just as clean and pure as our hearts”

    My patient’s and staff and wife think I look clean and pure in spite of the beard. Fooled them all once again though if I were clean shaven they’d still be fooled so might as well keep the beard.

  50. dblock
    July 5, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    @48

    Liesel

    I have also worn nice feminine slacks to church, especially during the winter months when I have had to wait for the bus to get to church. But then I also noticed that I’ve never been asked to give a opening prayer while wearing pants either, just something I’ve noticed.

  51. species373
    July 5, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    #45 Interesting, but all the men that I know teach in the primary as a couple with their wife. I wonder if men are considered auxiliary teachers and therefore somehow exempt from the chain of command? 😉

  52. Doug
    July 6, 2010 at 3:02 am

    #29 (Hawkgrrl) – WHICH Rocky theme song? The one where Bullwinkle launches Rocky into the sky, or the one where they end up sprouting out of the ground? “Vere dere is squirrel vill also be moose”. LMMFAO at the thought of a smart-alecky Mormon girl running around the chapel humming a Jay Ward inspired ditty!

    Now to the more pertinent answers:
    1) Convention. A stake center is also a meetinghouse, but an “ordinary” meetinghouse doesn’t have facilities for the stake (SP Office, High Council room). Imagine what we call the two-chapel monstrosities that supposedly are intended to house an entire stake.
    2) Because partaking of the Sacrament is the main purpose. Everything else is for all in the ward (or branch).
    3) Again, convention and practice. Nowhere do I read that the effect is good for a week only.
    4) I understand that Beehive, MiaMaid, and Laurel is no longer used, merely their age groups.
    5) If the Air Force can used a fifty-year old bomber (B-52) and all the services employ a 77-year old machine gun design (M2 Browning, designed by Brother John Browning) effectively, we can certainly employ lessons that have retained their basic form for twenty years. This from a guy that prefers to drive his thirty-one year old Mercedes in favor of more modern iron.
    6) We thank HF for whatever good weather (or opportune PRECIPITATION) that we get, but don’t get a warm fuzzy over storms.
    7) Figure of speech. Let’s hoped the food preparer(s) used his or her hands, with food service gloves as needed, and no other body parts!
    8) Facial hair and coloured shirts should NOT keep men out of the Celestial Kingdom, but tell that to your average pompous tight-arse.
    9) Ah, the Joseph Smith Translation debate. Answer: if the Church did, it’d just stir up more controversy. We do fine with the 399-year old King James Version (see answer to #5), with LDS footnotes and references since 1979.
    10) I’ve never been to a fireside that could be described as a “party”…apart from the intended purpose, they can be real “yawners”, and having them at the end of a long Sunday can be sheer torment.

  53. Jeff Spector
    July 6, 2010 at 10:20 am

    “Imagine what we call the two-chapel monstrosities that supposedly are intended to house an entire stake.”

    Most folks don’t even know about these except the 4 in Northern California and one in Southern California. Luckily, or unluckily, their utilization has never been fully realized except for short periods of time.

    I called them over sized Taco Bells because that is what they reminded me of.

  54. Hawkgrrrl
    July 6, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Doug: “WHICH Rocky theme song?” The theme song when Rocky Balboa (Sylvester Stallone) is running up and down the steps in Philadelphia, training to defeat the champion. Of course!

    On the JST, the issue is that there are (today) many superior translations to the KJV, but our footnotes and so forth are all based on the KJV. To purport to do a better translation based solely on inspiration seems a bit onerous and foolhardy, something likely to be easily debunked by the many scholars out there.

  55. Doug
    July 6, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    “And now..(thank you, June Foray, 92 and still the most verbose squirrel)..here’s something we hope you’ll reallly like!”

    #54…Yo! Hawkgrrl, did Mickey Goldmill make you catch the chicken with your bare hands before you could get the YW medallion? Tough ward! Maybe youse shoulda been workin’ da Philly docks!

    The late Robert J Matthews, who was the prinicpal author of the Bible Dictionary included in the 1979 LDS KJV version, debunked many of the assertions of the inadequacy of the KJV and showed some counters to charges about Joseph Smith included alledged “errors” when transcribing Isaiah verses into the BoM. In short, even if King Jimmy “El Primero” was attempting to counter the recent Catholic Duoai version (1582) and thus reduce the influence of “Popish” persons (read the KJV preamble) for political reasons, his scholars did a bang-up job. For that reason, and the inevitable rock-throwing that would occur IF the Church did put out its own “Inspired Version Redux”, we’re best off with the “old skool” version that has served the English-speaking world for ALMOST 400 years.

  56. ben
    July 7, 2010 at 2:33 am

    Not sure about these. I thank God whatever the weather’s like (well maybe not flooding), and call the church building “the church” or “chapel” (not chapel too much, sounds too RC)… 7 – well the hands do most of the food don’t they?

  57. Jeff Spector
    July 7, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Doug,

    “The late Robert J Matthews, who was the principal author of the Bible Dictionary included in the 1979 LDS KJV version, debunked many of the assertions of the inadequacy of the KJV”

    Well, he certainly had a vested interest in doing that at that time. I don’t think that anyone is saying that KJV is THAT bad, it is just that I was wondering why, if we have an Articles of Faith That says ‘as far as it is translated correctly,’ that that effort has not been made when better source materials are available AND there are some many references in our scriptures on corrections to the KJV translation.

  58. GBSmith
    July 7, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    J. Reuben Clark lobbied hard back in the ’30s for the KJV and as I understand it is the main reason it was made the authorized version.

  59. Tony
    July 7, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    ///I wonder why people who’ve never lived in the west and had to depend on the weather for survival get such a kick out the quaint term “moisture”.////
    And to think, I was just about to laugh about the ‘moisture’ thing. I should repent, O wretched man that I am!

  60. Tony
    July 7, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Oh, and on number 9, I say that we should all try and look at some of the original Greek and Hebrew. We can’t be compelled in all things, and I don’t expect everyone to take time out to do that. But I’ll try!

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